Scots 'got' Thatcherism but we didn't vote for it!

Once Labour stood with fellow Scots and shouted "Scotland, United will never be defeated!" Not any more... #indyref twitter.com/freescotlandno…
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) April 17, 2013
 

Thatcher: What does reaction say about Scotland?
Article in Scotsman by David Torrance

Given that David Torrance actually used to work for the Tory party at Westminster is he really the best person to look at 'both sides' of this?

I recently saw him on TV deliberately kniving the SNP during a discussion on class, he has a political agenda and I think like many others he is trying to re-write history to justify the 'Good old Maggie, she was just mis-understood in Scotland' myth.

"Of course anti-Thatcher hostility is not a specifically Scottish phenomenon, ­although here it has a curiously personal edge. Thatcher closed Ravenscraig; she shut down the coalmines, as if as Prime Minister she had personally – and by implication vindictively – directed the demise of heavy industry without reference to economic winds or management desire."

That anyone could blythly dismiss the Ravenscraig/Gartcosh closure like this suggests that David Torrance has read the books but he doesn't understand the reality on a gut level. He's perhaps just a few years too young as he was born in '77. That means he's only seven years younger than me but I have a vivid memory of '87 which is when Thatcher was first wholly rejected by Scots and was an election I was actually involved in, my first political action as a Scottish nationalist and I was interested in politics for some years before.

The Scots 'got' Thatcherism (in both senses, we were given it whether we wanted it or not, and we understood it), but we didn't vote for her and if Britain had provided devolution (something the Conservative's had promised us) we would have avoided much of the destruction of our industrial base during the Thatcher years. We certainly would never have had the Poll tax!

The recent film about Mrs Thatcher the Iron Lady was actually quite a clever film but it sheared away from the controversy of her legacy and in fact it seemed to be an attempt to humanise Thatcher, using her dementia as a device to show her love for her husband Dennis. That's not a bad thing, Mrs Thatcher was a human being after all, but despite the fantastic central performance by Meryl Streep it really did not serously touch on her politics at all! I don't think there was one mention of Scotland in it but that is probably not surprising.

We Scots definitely did understand her politics and we didn't like them in much the same way as we don't support the actions of David Cameron right now. 

Let's not forget that the Tories recently used the murder of six small children to justify their benefits reforms. That puts a few hundred people in George Square holding a flash demo on the day of Mrs Thatcher's death in perspective!

Harry Reid wrote these comments about Mrs Thatcher on the Scottish review of books:

"The fact is that by the mid 1980s Thatcher had lost Scotland. This was a disaster for such an enthusiastically Unionist politician, a leader who grandly claimed that the Tory party was a “national party or nothing”. This was a quote from Disraeli, which Thatcher duly delivered to an audience of Scots Tories. In this context, national meant British. So, in Scotland anyway, the Tory party became, by her own admission, nothing.

Thatcher could never really grasp that Scotland itself was a nation, and a proud one; that was part of the problem. For her, much as she tried to respect and to understand Scotland, the country was just a component part of the UK. In losing Scotland, she grievously diminished her party’s unionist credentials, and she helped to pave the way for the fragmentation of the Union she cherished.

Thus the most successful and controversial British leader of modern times, and the most politically talented Unionist, could not maintain the unity of the UK. That is, in essence, her legacy in Scotland. It could be argued that she, more than anyone, paved the way for eventual Scottish independence."

What we can say about Mrs Thatcher is that she clarified the relative status of Scotland and England within the British union. England elects a Government, we get the results, and our opinions can be utterly ignored by Westminster.

In private Mrs Thatcher actually claimed to be an English nationalist and her action in denying Scotland devolution (a reversal in policy which caused Malcolm Rifkind to resign) and making sure North Sea Oil stayed in 'British' hands were certainly not in our interests but a case could be argued that these two actions allowed her to keep British imperial delusions alive, something which is central to English state interests.

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PS: I recommend reading this article by Mike Small on Bella Caledonia:

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/04/11/ding-dong/

Peter Tatchell reveals Scots independence support





Peter Tatchell: If Tiny Malta can be independent, why not Scotland?



Equality and human rights campaigner and former Labour Westminster candidate Peter Tatchell has called on Scots to vote Yes in the 2014 independence referendum.

The well known gay rights activist and social justice campaigner suggested that an independent Scotland would be “more left wing” than England and could have a “progressive future”.

Mr Tatchell is well known for his direct style of campaigning and is also famous for when he stood as a Labour candidate in a bitterly fought by-election in Bermondsey, south London in the 1980s, when it is claimed he was subjected to an anti-gay campaign.

Mr Tatchell claimed that an independent Scotland could follow the example of nations that had won their independence in recent decades.

He said: “If I were Scottish, I would support independence. Lots of small breakaway states, like Slovenia, have been success stories. Scotland has historically been more left wing than England. Independence would give the Scots people the opportunity to chart their own progressive future. If tiny Malta can have self-rule, why not Scotland?”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/peter-tatchell-reveals-scots-independence-support-1-2834297

Useful Scottish Independence Quotes - Please pass on!

"I have devoted myself to the cause of the people, it is a good cause, it shall ultimately prevail, it shall finally triumph."- Thomas Muir
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) April 14, 2013

"We English, who are a marvellous people, are really very generous to Scotland." Baroness Thatcher #indyref #scotland
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) April 14, 2013

"What are advantages Scotland reaps from so called Union that counterbalance annihilation of her independence and her name?" Robert Burns
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) March 12, 2013

"it is much easier to corrupt 45 Scots at London, than it is to corrupt 300 at Edinburgh!" Fletcher of Saltoun 1707#scotsnotbrits #indyref
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) March 8, 2013

@uk_together 2008 When asked about #Scots and #Wales opposing TeamGB Seb Coe said "F*ck 'em" #indyref Mutual Respect? twitter.com/freescotlandno…
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) March 4, 2013

Tony Blair on devolution "Sovereignty rests with me as an English MP and that's the way it will stay." Scotsman 1997 #scotsnotbrits #indyref
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) March 7, 2013

"I'm an English nationalist and never you forget it," said Mrs Thatcher to James Naughtie in 1986. #scotsnotbrits #indyref
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) March 7, 2013

England called the shots..because..union was seen as a way..of amplifying England's power worldwide Jack Straw 2006 news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme…
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) March 10, 2013

"I have devoted myself to the cause of the people, it is a good cause, it shall ultimately prevail, it shall finally triumph." Thomas Muir
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) February 25, 2013

WINSTON CHURCHILL 'of all small nations of this earth perhaps only the ancient Greeks surpass the Scots in their contribution to mankind.'
— Independence Celebs (@Celebs4indy) November 22, 2012

I like this: Pat Kane "I want to live in a progressive country. Where the peopleliving here have ideas way beyond their station." #indyref
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) February 23, 2013

"It's a racist argument that Scots uniquely cannot run a country when there are smaller nations than ours that do it just fine." Osama Saeed
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) February 23, 2013

"It is not for glory nor honors nor riches that we are fighting but for freedom for that alone which no honest man gives up" Arbroath 1320
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) February 23, 2013

"Is it better that we deliver on our agenda inan independent Scotland or continue to fail to deliver in a United Kingdom?" John Duffy FBU
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) February 23, 2013

Iain (M) Banks: "Scotland could have viable future as independent country. We could become a low-inequality society on Scandinavian model."
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) February 23, 2013

Ken Loach: "If I had the change to be independent from the Tory-Liberal-New Labour bunch, I'd jump at it." #indyref
— Joe Middleton (@freescotlandnow) February 23, 2013

Independence gives us chance to choose our destiny and right a historic wrong

Independence gives us the opportunity to choose our political destiny.

The British Union forces us to accept another country's choice as ours.

That current choice (the Conservatives) has a backward hatred of the poor in
society that it is simply not acceptable to our countrymen. Also the fact is
that we got 20 years of direct rule from London after a vote in favour of
home rule in 1978 and that had followed an estimated 2M support for
devolution in the 1950's!

If you look much further back into history there is significant evidence of
political oppression, paid spies and deportations to the colonies of
advocates of human rights. Prior to that armed revolt and the effectively
ethnic cleansing of the Gaelic population and Roman Catholics all because
they preferred the true heirs to the throne rather than a set of English
owned puppets.

There was even large attempts to remove the name of Scotland altogether and
rename us as North Britain and Ireland as West Britain. England didn't need
to be renamed as South Britain because they already understood that it was
the same thing. Britain = Britannia ie the early name for England and Wales
(the seperate country which they have controlled for so long that they treat
it legally as a part of theirs).

The union has been a grotesque and massive fraud which has hidden the
constant exploitation and sacking of our small country by a much larger one.

It needs to end and this generation has a chance to end it.

GERRY HASSAN SIMPLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND SNP

I think what is coming across from this article [review of Break up of Britain book here] is that Mr Hassan does not understand the SNP and his past allegiance to Labour has left him with an irrational hatred and fear of all nationalism.

I also don’t recognise the description provided of the book ‘Eclipse of Scottish Culture’. This in fact argued that Nairn was to an extent viewing Scotland unfairly through a British/Marxist prism of understanding while still agreeing with his ultimate conclusions that the British state deserved to break up!

The SNP are a principled left of centre party. In UK terms they and Plaid Cymru are considerably to the left of Labour as indeed are Sinn Fein.

Isobel Lindsay (who has been a member of both Labour and SNP) in the current issue of Scottish left review analyses the SNP programme in office and comes to this overall conclusion.

The few right wing twitches which she does identify are very few and far between. The position on the 48 hour week (not advocating the cut off in working hours) is unfortunate and is a fair example.

If this issue was discussed at a party conference however I have little doubt it would be adjusted the other way and I suggest that insufficient internal debate have allowed the SNP's MEP's to take such a stance.

Finishing off an uncompleted motorway is not a betrayal of leftist values however but a logical end to a half done job! The reduction in rates for business is an attempt to equalise an area where Scots business had been paying a traditionally higher rate. It has been party policy for ten years to do this so it is not a change in direction.

Overall the SNP as a minority Government have did the best they can despite a unionist opposition which has worked together when required.

Labour in London denied them funds with a lower than normal block grant and Labour, Tories and Lib Dems all banded together to force through the expensive Edinburgh trams project. This has left the SNP vulnerable to attacks that they have not fulfilled their entire manifesto by those same parties who deliberately denied them the funds to do so!

Nonetheless they did remove Tuition fees and have taken what progressive measures they can within a restricted budget.

I am looking forward to reading the full book but certainly the chapters I have read have been a valid and indeed important contribution to the ongoing debate. Kev's concentration on the culture of nationalism is I think a lot more important and relevant than any person within the current British establishment would like to admit.

It is a cultural fight and onslaught we face with a constant stream of British flag waving entertainment (much of it trivial but the underlying jingoism is there) and a deliberate campaign to ignore Gaelic and our other national language, Scots.

Those who have championed the Scots language like Kelman and Welsh have therefore engaged Britain at a level where it is most vulnerable and the cultural connection is extremely important to understanding the state we are in today. It is also crucial to providing the confidence to vote us out of it.